Thinking about the play doh tigers today led me to thinking about the Irish team.
As a cricketing nation Ireland is good enough to get 2 players into the English set up.
The way Niall O’Brien is going about his cricket; combined with the way England churn through wicket keepers, he could very well end up in the English side as well.
How many Bangladeshi players could push into the English side?
Shakab, yes, Mortaza, doubtful, Ashraful, possible.
Ireland has beaten Bangladeshi two International tournaments in a row.
And the first time they did it without Ed Joyce, the second without Eoin Morgan.
Bangladesh certainly has more people playing the game, and a much greater love of the game.
But Ireland has its young stars playing in county cricket, which has to be at least 3 times as strong as Bangladesh domestic cricket.
So here is my question for you balls’ fans, if Ireland were part of the subbie block, and Bangladesh were a European country, which country would be a test playing nation right now?
And before I get flooded with irate Indians & Pakistanis calling me a racist pigeon fucker, this is not dissing the subbie, here is the second question, if both sides were in the subbie, who would deserve test playing status more.
If Ireland could have their English players back, I would be confident in saying that they deserve Test status more than Bangladesh. As it is, I think Bangladesh are a stronger side (they beat the Irish 3-0 recently in Bangladesh), though I’d like to see a series between them in Ireland.
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I jus luv wat the Irish spring up once in two yrs, or in major tournaments. But to take a call on playing test cricket or even regular cricket it wud be mass suicide. Suddenly they lose too many games and the ICC feel they hv promoted cricket too liitle too early. They need to keep playing in their league and improve.. and i mean B’desh, Zim, Kenya , Eng … watever.. Kenya did the right thing by not pushing for the test status wen they reached the WC semis in ’03. Well I do hope Irish do get their someday soon and play top-notch. Cos i luv it! And Eng shud stop raping scotish and irish players.
JRod, both questions might be rhetorical, but it is not clear-cut. Bangladesh still have a better over-all record than Ireland, but then they should. They play at the top level, they are all professional, their best players are available to them.
Bangladesh were in the right place at the right time. They beat Pakistan in 1999, and the politics favoured them, despite, arguably, being worse than Kenya. It is more than just politics though. Plenty of people would rescind Bangladesh’s status (as to some extent the ICC has to Zimbabwe) for statistical reasons, not political ones.
But it is the logistics and financial side that is the kicker. The future tours program is a massive hindrance to more test sides, because it has failed to schedule 10 teams over a reasonable time frame, but ditching it will more or less set Bangladesh loose (and possibly the West Indies, New Zealand, maybe Sri Lanka and for other reasons Pakistan).
Therefore, while most observers (and all the associates) would love to see Ireland moving forward, within the test countries there is hardly any support. Expanding the future tours program would mean South Africa, India, Australia and England would need to shorten (money-making) marquee series, and increase scheduling conflicts with the IPL (which matters to players). Switching to a tiered system provokes paranoia in the other nations who fear that once they drop they’ll never return.
Personally I favour the same thing football has: a tiered 12 month long world cup run every four years, with regional (Northern/Southern/Sub-continental) cups/qualifiers run in an alternate four-year cycle, and marquee series played in between. Not likely to happen anytime soon though.
Ireland should be a Test nation now. Bangladesh should remain a Test nation. Kenya should have been made a Test nation in 2003. The preciousness about “Test” status and the sanctity of Test records is way overblown. The current dominance of bat over ball and the huge mismatches make meaningful comparison meaningless anyway. Does anyone really consider Hayden’s 380 to be a meaningful (former) Test record now? All records should be seen in the context of who the match was against, where it was played and when it took place.
Of course, when SA, NZ, WI, India, SL etc. were invited into the Test cricket fraternity the mismatches etc. were a feature of their early years. Time would hopefully see improvements made by Ireland and Bangladesh (and Kenya) and if not, so what? In all sport some teams will lose more than they win; it does not make them unfit to play.
I suspect the feudal nature of ICC politics will mean that Ireland will never be a full member of the ICC. Rightly or wrongly they will be seen as another vote for the supposed Aus/Eng/NZ faction and thus opposed by the supposed subcontinental faction. If Kenya sort out their internal problems and return to the level they maintained for near on 10 years, they have have more of a chance.
The only valid reason I can see for opposing expanding Test status is fitting them into the “future tours” program. My simple answer to that is to scrap it! Let nations organise tours with whom they wish and rely on global tournaments at limited overs level to expand opportunities for developing Test nations. If they perform well at this level, invitations will follow.
One radical notion, let individual nations set their own definition of what is a Test match. If India want to play Nepal in a Test, then let them. Same, same for Pakistan v Afghanistan. Other than some records losing some shine, what is the worst that could happen?
Jrod,
There is no doubt that the Irish team is way better than the Bangaldesh team at the moment. I am more inclined towards Ireland having test status than Bangladesh. Cricket is way bigger in Bangladesh than it is in Ireland and that’s one of the primary reasons that they are a Test playing nation(besides the support form the BBCI). YOu would no doubt have read about reports of an initiave that the ICC is considering fast tracking China into the upper echelons of cricket due to the financial rewards there are to be had. The ICC is largely concerned with MONEY and any team that can generate a considerable amount of revenue or has considerable political clout within the iCC (read : ZImbabwe) will find decisions are made that would be favorable towards them. Just as it took India decades to be considered a force in world cricket, Bangladesh will have to endure these testing times to mature into a consistent, formidable force in world cricket.
bangladesh’s test status feels like it should go – it is sheer torture watching them in most matches. having said that though, teams like new zealand and india spent dog years trying to find their first test victory, so perhaps we all need to be more patient with bangladesh as well…
i think neither ireland nor bangladesh should be playing test matches any time soon. the way they play, they can push a team close for one test match, and then implode for the rest of the series… although based on that logic pakistan’s test status should also be taken away :P
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KK, I don’t really think either of them deserve test status either.
jrod, dont you think that ECB might have more to do with suppressing Ireland than India or Pakistan or Sri Lanka. It is in the best interests of England to suppress Ireland and steal their players for themselves?
I propose that Ireland rebel and join the subbie group, get test status, and f**k England. Even Netherlands are welcome with Dirk Nannes. Problem is despite the obvious advantage of joining the sub-continent mafia, Ireland will not do so ‘cos of possibly racial reasons.
Raj, i doubt the ECB thinks about Ireland at all.
Whaddabout a team drawn from the non test playing world; perhaps 2 a few years further down the track, with a view to enabling some of those nations to get test status a wee bit earlier and with much more experience and strength when they are launched. Don’t give the games test status, but shoehorn 7 or 8 5 day games into the yearly test match roster. If a 2nd team comes on the 2 composite teams can play each other in a 5 test series each year and each team can then play 3 or 4 games against test playing nations. No one has the patience these days to wait 20 or 30 years for a first test victory.
Alternately bang em into a local domestic comp- would likely improve the standard of most local comps going and would provide a bit of marketing interest /pizzaz and expose local comps to a lot more international interest.
Gotta be more interesting than watching 2020
It’s not a subbie thing..
As long as they faithfully agree to vote with India on all matters.. we will see what we can do.
The problem also relates back to domestic cricket. Even test playing nations need test match revenue to support their domestic competitions.
But without proffessional, first class domestic cricket, it is difficult to see the likes of Ireland being able to raise their standards so that they can compete consistently at international level and continue to produce good cricketers.
So it’s a catch-22 situation.
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you racist pigeon fucker, Jrod.
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Good question, JRod, and something that I have been thinking about very often, especially after seeing how competitive Ireland was in the T20WC.
Bangladesh just aren’t up to it. I mean, how can you give a country test status just because they beat a test playing nation in one match? That means we should give the Netherlands, Kenya and Ireland automatic qualification.
Their infrastructure is poor, all the boys (yes, boys, not men) who come to the national team look like they just came from their mamaa’s loins….they are atrocious and can’t even bat for their life.
However, I have been following Associate cricket for some time and have noticed that Ireland always seems to just thrash the team that it meets in the final of the ICC Intercontinental Cup (4 day trophy for Associates) by at least an innings.
This surely means that they have created a new level between the Associates and the Test playing nations. I’m sure they would do better in the FP trophy if they had their full team for those matches..
I would vote for Bangladesh and Zimbabwe to be stripped of their Test status and Ireland to get it….it would take a couple of years, but at least it won’t be so agonizing to watch!
GCW, the Irish only need access to first class cricket, not a viable home league. Their footballers have traditionally played in England, and it would greatly surprise me if their cricketers (and those of the Netherlands and Scotland) didn’t as well. This has already been occurring for years, and is one of the reasons Ireland is improving so rapidly.
Kenya, incidentally, have their problems, but the biggest is that Steve Tikolo is getting old. It is the individuals who suffer most from test cricket’s class system. Tikolo should be remembered as a great, but will never really have the chance. Fluctuating fortunes are the way of sport though. We need to move away from this idea that there is some level that teams can get to and then stay there. Small teams (like New Zealand or the West Indies) have periods where they have great players and they can match or beat anyone, and they have fallow periods where they get thrashed. Teams need to be able to find their level, which means the status system needs to be fluid, not rigid.
Which funnily enough it actually is (the ICC have done well, in this respect), right up until you get to test level, when teams hit a glass ceiling.
I agree with the arguement.. surely Ireland deserve to be playing test cricket.. however Ireland only came into the international stage in 2007 I think.. Its been 2 years since they played an ODI world cup and have upset bigger teams.. Bangladesh have been qualifying for the world cup since 1996… and remained the top associate nation for a long time before they were granted ODI status and then Test status..
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Oh no, Bangladesh were never a top associate…they just scraped through to win the ICC trophy in 1998…if I remember correctly, I had read it in some book and it mentioned that they won by one wicket on the last ball, chasing a modest target of under 200!
Ireland, on the other hand, are a country mile ahead of the other associates. If you look at their performance in all associate tournaments, they always beat the other teams comfortably and emerge winners!
BTW, in the match mentioned above, the spinner Mohd. Rafique opened! :O
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You’re not a racist pigeon fucker. If you were a racist pigeon fucker, you’d recommend the Irish (and the dutch?) begin to play cricket exclusively in brownface, acknowledge Sharad Pawar as the Supreme Lord and Lalit Modi as his only begotten Son, add a little blue wheel to the center of their flag, and learn hindi/urdu/punjabi sledges (or that the dutch should seriously consider switching from a blue to a green stripe in their flag). Further, a racist pigeon fucker would recommend that the Irish focus less on the English County League and instead focus on the Indian Premier League, which is doubly Premier, being first Indian and then Premier, which that league of racist pigeon fuckers in the English Counties is most definitely not. Lastly, if you were a racist piegon fucker, you’d definitely recommend that the primary requirement for an Irish cricket captain should not be cricketing ability or leadership skill, but the ability to begin every answer to a question with either “of course” or “first of all, thanks to Allah”, or both preferably. I think we’ve indubitably established that you are not a racist pigeon fucker.
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Raj, I think your first sentence was spot on. ECB does care about Ireland – if not the players they can steal without even citizenship, then at least they care when Ireland tries ot make some money hosting ODIs in Stormont… It’s a strange, strange situation in those islands.
Totally agree jrod.
I should add, England would not want Ireland to have test status as they then cannot rape and pillage their players.
I suggest boyd rankin will be the next.